Muslims believe that the Quran is unchanged and there are no variants in their scripture. We are told that all Muslims all over the world use the one and the same Quran.
Is this true?
Walk into your local Islamic bookshop and ask what versions of the Quran they sell.
This online books store, has 13 versions of the Quran in Arabic.
This bookshop in Jordan has over 20 Arabic versions of the Quran for sale.
Muslims say these are not different versions. We need to know there are 7 ahrufs, and qira’at, different ways of reciting. There are very minor differences, mainly vocal variations; slight differences in the way the verses are recited.
Some of these are Qalun, Al-Duri, Khalaf, etc. The two most widely used versions in existence today are the Hafs and Warsh versions.
What version do you use? Is yours a Hafs or Warsh version?
Here’s how you can tell…
Look at the first verse of Sura al-Fatihah. If there is a number “1” after the ‘Bismillah’ verse, then you have the Hafs version. If not, you have the Warsh version. Also, if you’re in Saudi Arabia, you’re using the Hafs. If you live in Morocco, you’re using the Warsh.
Do all these versions use the same Arabic words and text and carry the same meanings?
Here are a some more examples of text variants that can be found in the different Arabic versions that show that the Quranic text and meaning itself has been altered! You look at these and judge for yourselves.
Hafs vs AlSusi – Different Pronouns Used!
Grammatical Error in Hafs! Not in Ruh!
Hafs vs alDuri: Different Words Used!
Hafs vs Warsh: Different Sentence Structure!
Hafs vs alBazzi: Different Verbs Used!
Hafs vs Warsh: Different Pronouns Used
Why are there numerous variances?
Compare Sura 2:125 in Hafs with the Warsh.
Hafs has this: وَاتَّخِذوْا “WatakhIzu” (You shall take) BUT in Warsh it is وَاتَّخَذوْا “WatakhAzu” (They have taken/made).
The Hafs version gives a command, while Warsh states a historical observation. Same verse but different words used and different meanings rendered. here are a few other differences found comparing Hafs and the Warsh.
Do you know how many verses are there in the Quran? You will find that number of verses in Hafs is 6236, while Warsh has only 6214 verses.
Which one is the right version? Which one did Muhammad recite? Which one matches the eternal preserved tablets that is with Allah?
Interesting fact: Did you know the the official version of the Quran was only finalized in 1924 in Cairo, Egypt? It was only authorized officially as recently as 1985, in Saudi Arabia. Why did it take 1300 years for the world to finalize and authorize the Quran, if there has always been just the one and the same Quran all ver the world? Now you know why.
Allah said that he will preserve his word (Sura 15:9). Did someone manage to change his words?
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the text was without the nuqat ‘dots’ and tashkeel , the original word isn’t changed only the placement of dots. and even with that, both difference send the same msg. prophets died and other prophets fought, doesn’t negate the history. He or We also refers to 1 God, again nothing has changed. Say or He said, also doesnt change what message is being said. thats the powerful part. Now please show me a change that says something is unlawful and in another text it is lawful. or something that means the ‘opposite’.
thank you
When changing the word, ‘he’ to ‘we’, if you don’t consider it changes meaning, it actually changes the speaker. It actually changes from third person narration to first person narration.
my brother arabic word for we is نحن and I is انا the difference is in you say and they say so that doesn’t change meaning because when you say and they ask about this or say and you ask about this both ways it is refering to people in one manner Allah SWT directly talking to these people you and other way talking to messenger thay ask about.
How can you say We and I are not different. I can change the word to they and it woulsd still refer to Allah. Which means humans can change the verse and it wouold still refer to Allah.
The points spotted as mistakes are simple rules of reading that are taught when learning the Arabic of Qur’aan but not the Arabic as a language. They let the meaning standard. They all remain heading to one vocal point of message which is unchanged anywhere. Even a yaa written without dots has been spotted as a changed meaning. Mmmmmm. Yet yaa has various ways of writing. In all. Allah made the Qur’aan a guidance to many and to mislead many disbelievers.
There is more than enough proof that there are over 30 different Qurans written since the 8th century ad! And all that mean completely different things! The main one that most Muslims read today was a Cairo, Egyptian version that wasn’t finished until1924! You can look it up online! That proves to us that this book was written by evil men & not by the true God(Allah)! Because it speaks nothing of the love of God, all of His people or the Son of God! So this tells us that this book(Quran) is based on the words of a false prophet!! And do you know what it says in the Old Testament(Torah) about what happens to people who follow a false prophet, book or a false god?
There is more than enough proof & evidence that shows there are over 30 different Qurans that have been written since the 8th century ad! And the one that most Muslims read is a version of one written in Cairo, Egypt that wasn’t finished till 1924! You can look it up on YouTube called “suspicious over 30 different Qurans since the 8th century!” So that proves to us that this book was not very accurate to begin with & that it was written by evil men & not by God himself! It was an inspired book of what they thought was the intellect of God. But God uses love not intellect! So that’s how you can tell that this book the Quran is false & teaches about a false prophet who did nothing good on earth for his people or for God! Is there any evidence that he healed the sick or helped the poor? Did he do any good deeds for mankind cause that’s what a true prophet is or was supposed to do!! Not have hatred, anger & cursing the unbelievers! God is only a forgiving God he doesn’t have hatred or anger in his heart for his people even the ones who are sinful! So this tells me that the Quran is based on a false prophet not even a good man!! I would not ever want to read this book cause it could be risking my salvation on such evil & hateful content or words! And neither should you!
The Muslim understanding of God (Allah) are obviously very distorted & do not at all teach peace! Because if they were the Quran would not teach its followers to kill the innocent in the name of Allah, just because they’re unbelievers or not of Muhammad & Allah! God or Allah is not a hateful or angry God he is forgiving to all who those who repent or ask for forgiveness! So therefore that proves that the Quran & the Muslim faith is not a religion or book of peace what so ever!
Why would God (Allah) send a prophet like Muhammad to curse, hate & wage war on innocent people just because they are unbelievers of Islam, Muhammad & the Quran which is a very deceiving book & religion anyways? It doesn’t make any sense! They claim that they are descendants of the religion of the prophet Abraham. But he was a Jew not a Muslim & he did not ever instigate any war on innocent people just because they were unbelievers! Muslims also don’t believe in the trinity but there’s proof that the trinity existed back then during the days of Abraham. If you truly read & can comprehend the Old Testament from Deuteronomy. It’s called the Abrahamic trinity & the Oak of Mamre! But I guess you all missed that part even though you read it?
You don’t know it yet but you’ve just admitted you cannot know what the original Quran says.
CIRA International did two videos on this topic both covering the same material. Without the dottings a word can have dozens of differing meanings. It is a requirement to have the dottings to know the meaning of the arabic text.
Any you’ve admitted the most ancient texts don’t have them. You’re stuck blindly trusting that humans have memorized it perfectly and have made no additions or deletions or changes to that verse in their head. Obviously not because we’ve seen that method has produced at least 31 different qurans. It’s not possible to know the original meaning without having original documents that are unambiguous in what each word means. Islam doesn’t have those documents. It’s game over for the Quran.
Video sources:
https://youtu.be/EpsnXMZ5lEE
https://youtu.be/9lqQBVtUWvo
Thank you Noura for your comment.
The very fact that different words are used in the different Arabic Qurans prove there is no ONE single version of the Quran as alleged by Muslims.
Different words also mean different meanings and different recitations.
Reviewing one of the examples above:
Sura 2:125 in Hafs and the Warsh.
Hafs says : وَاتَّخِذوْا “WatakhIzu” (You shall take)
BUT in Warsh it is وَاتَّخَذوْا “WatakhAzu” (They have taken/made).
Different words. Different meanings. Different recitations.
You can argue that they convey the same message but Islam prides itself on the precise recitations of its scriptures.
Muslims say that, word-for-word, the Quran is the exact speech of Allah.
So what EXACTLY did Allah speak?
وَاتَّخِذوْا “WatakhIzu”
OR
وَاتَّخَذوْا “WatakhAzu”
remove dots ,is it word look like same or not
God said to his people love your enemies & forgive those who persecute you! What did Muhammad do & say? He actually cursed all Christians, Jews & even his own people just because they may or may not have been believers of Allah(God) at the time!! He even waged war on the innocent! This is not what a true prophet is or was supposed to do or be about! A true prophet is & was supposed to love & forgive his people according to what the true God teaches us to do! Not how God or Allah is depicted in the Quran! This is the main reason why Muslims in the Middle East have been killing Christians for over 1,000 years because their book & their so called prophet taught hate, anger & war for mankind & not love for mankind! Until the Quran is changed for a hundredth time to start teaching love for God & people things will never get better in the Middle East or anywhere in the world! He was most definitely a false prophet cause he did nothing special or any good deeds to help mankind but works of evil instead!
christian changed worship from one GOD to three GOD.and abandoned 10 commandment still christian think they are on truth.
Ilyas said: “remove dots ,is it word look like same or not”
Who gave the authority to add or remove dots? Allah or Muhammad? Who is the person who edited the Quran by adding dots.
Muslims claim not even one dot has changed from the time of Muhammad. That is obviously a false claim.
Ilyas wrote: “christian changed worship from one GOD to three GOD.and abandoned 10 commandment still christian think they are on truth.”
Why change the topic? 🙂
Anyway, I will answer you. No Christian worship three gods. There is no where in the Bible that says we have three gods. You will never find a single Christian in the world that believes in three gods.
Please stop listening to false islamic teachers who misrepresent and lie about our beliefs. Thank you.
What do you have to say about trinity?
I have plenty to say.
Please see my articles on the subject of the trinity on this site.
Let me know if you have questions.
Hello
There are “the 7” standard versions (2 of each)
There are “the 3” good ones. (2 of each)
But there also are 4 “accepted” ones (1 of each)
I try to find the autors of these 4.
Meanwhile, there are like 50 different versions of The Bible-none of them being traced back to the original Greek. Also, it is historically documented that books have been added and subtracted by rulers such as Constintine.
There are supposedly 7 versions of Quran, as seen in Hadith. Now, Qira’at also varies, as does the Script. Kufic script was the original script, and it is much different than modern day Arabic. None of these differences impact meaning, and are quite minimal. Even with your comparison of Katheer and Kabeer, they mean the same thing in Old Arabic. The ‘different’ verses you state, such as compared in Hafs and Warsh, reflect the actual set up of the verses, not that any were put in or taken out.
Tell me – what have different versions of the Bible to do with different versions of quran? I do not see anything in common here. Besides the topic is about different versions of quran not of the Bible, so do not try to change it in vain hope that the main problem of quran will magically disappear.
50 different version of the Bible?
Are you talking about different translations? NIV, NKJV, ESV, NLT, etc…these are different versions of translations. Not different messages.
All these “versions” communicate the same message.
Using your logic, are the different English translations of the Quran mean they are different versions of the Quran – Sahih Int, Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, etc.
As for the claim that Constantine added and subtracted books from the Bible. That is just anti Christian propaganda that has not a shred of evidence. Constantine had nothing to do with the compilation of the books of the Bible.
Do you know you call camel in 50 different ways in arabic does that change the meaning of camel just because it’s written differently. Now English has 500000 words and Arabic just over 12.3mill.
Now Google how many tribes there were back in Mohammad time who used to speak Arabic? And you can check it they all had slight different in pronunciation. So to not mix it up they bought these dots. Your so called” mistakes”
Beck,
There can be 50 different ways in Arabic to refer to the camel.
The issue here is which word did Allah use? The other 49 words don’t matter!
It doesn’t matter either if Arabic has 12.3 million words.
If Muslims claim their koran is the verbatim words of allah, then the only word that matters is the one that allah supposedly dictated!
Actually it was reviled by Allah to the prophet in those different dialects , which means they all from Allah.
And there are some Hadith which explains That . Still the same massage .
Unlike the Bible which receives changes Till this day .
It was reviled by Allah?
Allah never spoke one word of the koran to Muhammad. You know it.
At least, thank you for admitting there were different texts (but same message). That demolishes the age-old Islamic argument that not one word or letter of the koran is unchanged.
Muslims scholars themselves have admitted there are holes in the narrative.
The Quran & muhammad never taught anything about the true love of God or mankind that’s how I know for sure Muhammad was a false prophet! So why would I ever want to read a book about a false prophet saying things that are evil & only of deception? I think this book was written by evil men who were also possessed by the devil! And I believe that Muhammad was not visited by angels but he was visited by the devil or the (Shaytan) himself! If you read this book & believe in its words your salvation will severely be at risk & you’ll be a puppet to the devil Muhammad & all of his children or followers!
The Seven Qira’at of the Qur’an
When reading the Qur’an, we frequently refer to Warsh or Hafs and say,
“This is Hafs” or “This is Warsh”.
What we mean by that is that this is the riwaya or Warsh or the riwaya of Hafs.
It is the riwaya of a particular qira’a.
The qira’at/the readings/or methods of recitation, are named after the leader of a school of Qur’an reciters.
Each qira’a derives its authority from a prominent leader of recitation in the second or third century hijri who in turn trace their riwaya or transmission back through the Companions of the Prophetﷺ.
For instance, in the back of a WARSH Qur’an, you are likely to find
“the riwaya of Imam Warsh from Nafi’ al-Madini from Abu Ja’far Yazid ibn al-Qa’qa’ from ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas from Ubayy ibn Ka’b from the Messenger of Allahﷺ,from Jibril, peace be upon him, from the Creator.”
Or in HAFS you will see
“the riwaya of Hafs ibn Sulayman ibn al-Mughira al-Asadi al-Kufi of the qira’a of ‘Asim ibn Abi’n-Nujud al-Kufi from Abu ‘Abdu’r-Rahman ‘Abdullah ibn Habib as-Sulami from ‘Uthman ibn ‘Affan and ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib and Zayd ibn Thabit and Ubayy ibn Ka’b from the Prophetﷺ.
There are slight differences in these readings, for example, where one stops,
as in Surat al-Baqara
(1): “Dhalika’l-Kitabu la rayb” or “Dhalika’l-Kitabu la rayba fih” as well as some voweling differences (“suddan” or “saddan”), and sometimes a difference in the letters due to different diacritical marks,
as ya’ or ta’ (turja’una or yurja’una).
Sometimes a word will have a shadda or not have a shadda.
In this context, we should mentioned that the Prophet himself said that the Qur’an was revealed in seven dialects (ahruf, sing harf).
Harf here means dialect, idiom, or mode of expression.
Now, during the khalifate of ‘Uthman, this had given rise to squabbling.
For instance, the Syrians followed Ubayy ibn Ka’b,
the Kufans followed ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’ud,
the people of Hims followed al-Miqdad,
and the people of Basra followed Abu Musa.
To put an end to these squabbles over which was best,
‘Uthman decided to unite the community behind one text.
In the time of Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, Zayd ibn Thabit had been charged by Abu Bakr to gather together all the written parts of the Qur’an and compile a complete text (for a large number of huffaz had been killed in the Battle of Yamama).
He did this, and it is reported that he was the first to collect the Qur’an between two covers.”
This copy went from Abu Bakr to ‘Umar and then to Hafsa.
‘Uthman used it to make his copy which was then distributed to all parts of the Muslim umma, but it is reported that ‘Uthman “made the copies of the Qur’an” or “united the Muslims on a single copy.”
The impetus to do this was provided by Hudhayfa ibn al-Yaman when he returned to Madina after observing regional differences.
He said to him,
“Take this umma in hand before they differ about the Book like the Christians and Jews.”
So he sent for the copy made by Abu Bakr which was in the possession of ‘Umar’s daughter,Hafsa.
The Qurayshi dialect was favoured in this and this eliminated much of the diversity, but some of it was still reflected in the different readings because it was essentially a business of oral transmission and there were no diacritical marks in the ‘Uthmanic script.
People recited the Qur’an as they had read it from their teacher and they in turn passed on this oral transmission.
Within the qira’at, there are two categories:
Mutawatir: a transmission which has independent chains of authorities so wide as to rule out the possibility of any error and on which there is consensus.
Mashhur: these are slightly less wide in their transmission, but still so wide as to make error highly unlikely.
There are 7 mutawatir qira’at and 3 mashhur ones.
The Mutawatir are:
Nafi’ (d. 169/785)
Ibn Kathir (d. 120/737)
Abu ‘Amr ibn al-‘Ala’ (d. 154/762)
Ibn ‘Amir (d. 154/762)
‘Asim (d. 127/744)
Hamza (d. 156/772)
al-Kisa’i (d. 189/904)
The Mashhur:
Abu Ja’far (d. 130/747)
Ya’qub (d. 205/820)
Khalaf (d. 229/843)
There are also some “shadhdh” readings, rare readings which are generally discounted.
It used to be that proper scholars learned all 7 or even 10 qira’at.
Sometimes they would use one qira’a one day and another the next day.
Some people had copies of the variants marked in them.
There was a slavegirl called Tawaddud in the time of Harun ar-Rashid who knew all ten readings by heart,
However, these readings did then to divide up according to location.
For instance, in 200 AH, Basra was reciting the qira’a of Abu ‘Amr and Ya’qub,
Kufa was using Hamza and ‘Asim,
Syria was using Ibn ‘Amir, Makka had Ibn Kathir,
and Madina was using Nafi’.
Egypt, which was the home of Warsh, used Warsh largely up until the arrival of the Turks.
Then Hafs became popular as it was the variant which the Turks used.
Hafs, incidentally, is the qira’a of ‘Asim, used in Kufa.
The Warsh riwaya of the qira’a of Nafi’.
Today, the two readings must used are the qira’a of ‘Asim in the riwaya of Hafs,
and the qira’a of Nafi’ in the riwaya of Warsh.
Also in use in Africa is the qira’a of Abu ‘Amir in the riwaya of ad-Duri.
Now, each of these readings, or riwayas, is the whole of the Qur’an as recited by a master in all the variants which are transmitted from him.
It is a corpus of recitation.
The forms of each recitation are referred to by the notable students of the master who recited them.
So we will find the tariq (pl. turuq) of so-and-so, the student of the master.
Then under the Turuq, there are also the wujuh.
We find the wajh of so-and-so from the tariq of so-and-so.
There are about twenty riwayat and eighty turuq.
So you can see how fine and precise the science of transmission was with these people.
The difference between the turuq and wujuh under a riwaya are so slight as to be almost unnoticeable.
They are mainly in intonation and diction rather than vowels or inflection.
But this is the level of care and precision which these people had.
Thanks for telling us that there were many different versions of the Quran before Uthman decided to standardise them.
One question: Which version/reading/qiraat ion Allah’s preserved tablets – lawh-e-mahfuz?
not before after Uthmann decided. And there is no version from Uthman to be found in the world, so tell us which one is Uthman standard.
Uthman burned all the rest of the Quran versions and declared his Quran, edited by Zaid ibn Thabit, as the official one.
As regards the preservation of the Qur’an, Muhammad Mustafa al-A’zami’s The History of the Qur’anic Text gives a full treatment to this subject.
To be brief: the original Arabic doesn’t require the diacritical markings; it’s been developed to help the masses read with ease. So all seven qira’at can be read out of that one text, even if they do have variations in the meaning, because all the meanings in the different qiraat are considered to be complementary and acceptable meanings.
You technically can read it the way it used to be read without markings, if you’re willing to devote yourself to the sciences of Arabic (grammar – nahw, morphology – Sarf, etc), along with the qira’ats. These are part of Islam’s oral and knowledge traditions…
…which are important because the Qur’an is also both an oral recitation and a written book. Both the written and the oral are important means of preservation, but the oral tradition is actually more significant to Muslims, because they preserve the Qur’an as a living tradition, passed down from master to disciple, with verifiable chains of transmission.
And God knows best.
I understand in Islam they learn Quran by recite and memorize it in oral in Arabic version (not the translated one), even before they fully understand the meaning of it. So you will find kids who memorize Quran in each different Country will have the same recitation verse by verse. And it passed on from generation to generation, passed it down from master to disciple. This’s how they preserve its authenticity. So if there’s any deviated version, the rest can verify. Pretty much like blockchain :D. Whoever made Quran and the system must’ve been really genius.
Not true. That’s only what your teachers have told you to believe from generation to generation.
Your scholars know and admit there are different Quranic texts. Don’t take my word for it.
https://youtu.be/c0Z7_MAZX5g
All of them.
Thier is a clear hadith that backs this up:
I heard Hishām ibn Hakīm reciting Surah Al-Furqān during the lifetime of Allah’s messenger. I listened to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which the Prophet had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I was able to contain myself, and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, “Who taught you this Surah which I heard you reciting?” He replied, “The Prophet taught it to me.” I said, “You are wrong, for the Prophet has taught it to me in a different way from yours.”
So I took him to Allah’s Messenger and said “O Messenger of Allah, I heard this individual reciting Surah Al-Furqān in a way that you did not teach me, and you have taught me Surah Al-Furqān.”
The Prophet said, “O Hishām, recite!” So So he recited in the same way as I heard him recite it before. On that Allah’s Messenger ﷺ said, “It was revealed to be recited in this way.” Then Allah’s Messenger ﷺ said, “Recite, O `Umar!” So I recited it as he had taught me. Allah’s Messenger ﷺ then said, “It was revealed to be recited in this way.” Allah’s Apostle added, “This Qurʾān has been revealed to be recited in seven different aḥruf, so recite it whichever way is easier for you.” Sahih Al Bukhari, 5041.
Every difference you highlighted is found in the 7 difference ahruf.
Now if you want to know more:
Please check out:
https://yaqeeninstitute.org/nazir-khan/the-origins-of-the-variant-readings-of-the-quran/ by Nazir Khan and Amar Khateeb.
Which of the 7 (some scholars say 10, some say 21) versions/readings/qiraat corresponds to Allah’s preserved tablets – lawh-e-mahfuz?
And who gave Uthman the authority to decide what constituted the quran or not?
Who directed him to burn Ibn Ma’sud’s quran? Who directed him to burn Ubayy Kab’s quran?
1st lie- Different VERSIONS of the Quran. You mean TRANSLATIONS!! THERES ONLY ONE QURAN. ONE! ONE!ONE!
The Roman Catholic VERSION has 73 books in the Bible. The King James VERSION has 66 books. THIS IS A DIFFERENT VERSION!!
ALL QURANS HAVE 114 CHAPTERS IN THEM. EVERY SINGLE QURAN. 1 Quran had 113 chapters or 110 then THAT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT VERSION!! Shaykh Deedat EXPLAINS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VERSIONS AND TRANSLATIONS. NO NEED TO LIE!!
Watch “Different Bibles??? By Ahmed Deedat” on YouTube
https://youtu.be/D8MH7BW_bFo
I will prove that this lying imposter has done nothing but steal the works of other Christian liars and he tried to claim it as his own. Yes that’s right people he plagiarized his information to seem knowledgeable. AS I WILL PROVE! The following is a FULL REFUTATION OF THE LIES OF THIS GENTLEMAN AND HIS LYING BUDDIES. BELOW-
Versions Of The Qur’an?
https://www.islamic-awareness.org/quran/text/qiraat/hafs
NOTICE EVERY PROOF IS BACK UP BY AUTHENTIC EVIDENCES. UNLIKE THE ORATOR! He used many fabricated and weak Hadith that have been rejected in Islam. Many Jewish and Christian Liars fabricated mini Traditions or Hadiths. This is highly permissible in Christianity but it’s highly improbable thanks to the high level of scrutiny in the science of Hadith in Islam. Islam WILL NOT ACCEPT any story or any tradition by just anyone. THEY MUST BE OF GOOD CHARACTER, TRUSTWORTHY AND PIOUS OR THE HADITH (Story) is REJECTED. Imagine the Nation of Islam writing stories about the KKK. Do you think the KKK would accept them? OF COURSE NOT! Why would the KKK trust a story by one of their enemies? They would not. Point made.
Hes trying to sound convincing with the MOST HORRIBLE Arabic accent imaginable. IF you were telling the truth you would challenge the scholars of Quranic exegesis IN A PUBLIC FORUM for all to see. The reason you relegated to a video is because you know that’s the safest route so you’re not exposed as the liar that you are. There are MANY experts on the Quran at the Zaytuna Institute in CA. I DARE YOU to challenge one of those Brothers in a public forum. I GUARANTEE you will not because you know just as well as everyone else knows you are lying and you don’t want to be exposed for everyone to see.
(510) 369-5920
(510) 900-3151
General Inquiriesinfo@zaytuna.eduP (510) 356-4760
I DARE YOU SIR!! Of course he won’t accept this challenge because he knows he’s lying and he knows he will be made to look like an IGNORAMUS!
PROVE ME WRONG!!
“When falsehood exists truth is hurled at falsehood and knocks out its brain” HOLY QURAN
Mujahid Sims unable to keep his emotions in check. Lashing out savagely. You even find time to insult someone’s “horrible” Arabic accent??! Why? Because your allah only accepts your self-righteous accent? And you want someone to debate you? 🙂
Mujahid Sims, you wrote… “1st Lie – different versions of the koran. You mean TRANSLATIONS.”
Look, we are talking about your multiple Arabic Korans!
Are you saying Arabic was translated into Arabic?
Like most muslims would do when cornered, you immediately try and divert to the Bible and desperately even posted a link to the discredited Deedat, misrepresenting our Book. I usually dont allow personal advertisements but will make an exception for you lest you become even more violent.
Mujahid Sims also claims that if a koran has 110 chapters, that would be a different version.
Now please tell me where are the korans that have 110 chapters?
Do you know how many chapters Ibn Masud’s koran contained?
How many chapters did Ubayy bin Kab’s koran have?
110 and 116 respectively, according to your own sources. But definitely not 114.
Uthman destroyed all those mushaf.
So, OF COURSE your korans today have only 114 chapters.
You cant even prove to anyone that your koran is SUPPOSED to have 114 chapters!
Remember neither allah nor Muhammad ever gave any instructions to compile surahs into a book.
This was the brainchild of Umar and co-conspirators.
The companions of Prophet memorized Quran word by word and verse by verse, it was only later on during the time of 3rd Caliph that the companions compiled Quran with the goal to secure the message and propagate it further. Now when a chapter was sent down from heaven it started with “In the name of Allah the most beneficent the most merciful ” that’s how the companions got to know that a new chapter has begun and an old chapter is completed. Except Surah Tawbah which does not start with the verse, why? You will know if you read it. Now the Quran of ibn Masud had 111 chapters. While the rest of the companions including Ali RA and Uthman RA had 114 chapters. those chapters were al-Fatihah and al-mu’awwizatayn (al-Falaq and al-Nas), i.e. nos. 1, 113 and 114.Quoting Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, Ibn adh-Dhurays, Ibn al-Munzar and Ibn Mardwiyah, as-Suyuti (d. 911 AH) gives us the following narration:
عن ابن مسعود في قوله: {ولقد آتيناك سبعا من المثاني} قال: فاتحة الكتاب
It is narrated from Ibn Mas‘ood, regarding the word of Allah, ‘We have given you the seven oft-repeated verses;’ he said, “[It is] Fatihah al-Kitab.” so he did considered Al fatihah as part of Quran. Ibn Mas‘ood did recognize al-Fatihah a part of the Qur’an, why did he not write it in his mushaf? He himself solves the riddle.
In a narration given by Abu Bakr al-Anbari (d.304 AH), it is stated;
قيل لعبد الله بن مسعود: لم لم تكتب فاتحة الكتاب في مصحفك؟ قال: لو كتبتها لكتبتها مع كل سورة. قال أبو بكر: يعني أن كل ركعة سبيلها أن تفتتح بأم القرآن قبل السورة المتلوة بعدها، فقال: اختصرت بإسقاطها، ووثقت بحفظ المسلمين لها
‘Abdullah bin Mas‘ood was asked as to why he did not write al-Fatihah in his mushaf. He replied, ‘If I were to write I would write it before every surah.’” Abu Bakr al-Anbari explains this saying every raka’ah (in prayers) starts with al-Fatihah and then another surah is recited. It is as if Ibn Mas‘ood said, ‘I have dropped it for the sake of brevity and I have trusted its preservation by Muslims (collectively).’Quoting from ad-Daylami, ‘Ali al-Muttaqi (d. 975 AH), in his gigantic Hadith collection, records a very interesting narration.
عن ابن مسعود قال: استكثروا من السورتين يبلغكم الله بهما في الآخرة المعوذتين
Narrated Ibn Mas‘ood: “Excessively recite two surahs. Allah will make you reach higher ranks in the Hereafter because of them. They are al-mu’awwizatayn (i.e. al-Falaq and an-Nas/nos. 113 & 114)…” so he did recognised Al-mu’awwizatayn as well. As for why he didn’t added it. As-Suyuti quotes Abu Bakr al-Baqilani (d. 406 A.H.) who said:
لم يصح عنه أنها ليست من القرآن ولا حفظ عنه. إنما حكها وأسقطها من مصحفه إنكارا لكتابتها لا جحدا لكونها قرآنا لأنه كانت السنة عنده ألا يكتب في المصحف إلا ما أمر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم بإثباته فيه ولم يجده كتب ذلك ولا سمعه أمر به.
“It is not proved from him that these two surahs are not from the Qur’an. He erased them and dropped them from his mushaf refusing to put them into writing, not rejecting them as part of the Qur’an. It was like this because to him nothing was to be written in the mushaf except what was commanded by the Prophet – peace and blessings of Allah be upon him – and he did not find them written nor heard an instruction in this regard.”.. I understand that it’s not easy for you to accept facts that goes against your belief and that it’s not easy either to realize that you’ve been taught a lie. But for the sake of your own soul think with unbiased mindset and listen to both sides of arguments before reaching any conclusion.
Thanks for admitting that the mushafs belonging to the early teachers of the koran were different from the 1924 edition of the koran that you read today. That itself destroys the claim that every letter is preserved.
Your explanations do not deny that there were in existence multiple different korans then. So where are they?
What you explain in your comment above is simply to question the authenticity of the hadiths that reveals Ibn Masud rejected Zaid Ibn Thabit’s compilation of the koran. Even if your explanations above about Ibn Masud is true, how are you going to explain Ubayy bin Kab’s codex? What about the first compiled mushaf by Salim? Where are they? Why were they destroyed?
If Ibn Masud’s koran is the same word for word, why destroy it?
If Salim’s koran is the same word for word, why destroy it?
If Ubayy’s koran is the same word for word, why destroy it?
The fact that Uthman had to burn the books proves otherwise.
You said, “I understand that it’s not easy for you to accept facts that goes against your belief and that it’s not easy either to realize that you’ve been taught a lie.”
Actually, this applies to YOU, Mr Ghulam Muhaiuddin. I do not even believe your book or the one who brought it. It is you who follow your book and it is you who should be grappling in your prayers if you have been taught lies about your book.
Even Islamic scholars such as Shabbir Ally acknowledges there are different texts of the koran in different parts of the world today. Is that what you have been taught?
Learn more: http://www.faithbrowser.com/category/quran/
I think you don’t understand my point here. Maybe because English is not my first language. Take an example of this hadeeth : On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
Allah the Almighty said: I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assembly better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm’s length, I draw near to him a cubit, and if he draws near to Me a cubit, I draw near to him a fathom. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed. Where do you think Prophet Muhammad pbuh got this knowledge?? From Allah. But it’s a part of hadeeth and not Quran. Indeed everything that Prophet Muhammad pbuh knew about Islam was from Allah but not everything can be added in Quran. It’s not that the companions thought it’s not from Allah. That’s not the case. They believed it to be the word of Allah it’s just that they(a handful) were in dilemma since, when it came to Islam, Quran and Sunnah nobody wanted to take any chances as it may lead to corruption in religion, that happened with the people of The book when the Church misinterpreted verses of Bible to suit themselves and the message got corrupted. But after discussing they reached to the conclusion that those verses were indeed part of Quran.
Take an example of someone who have recently memorized Quran. Take me, for example. IAm not a Hafiz ,as of now. Suppose I memorize Quran and start writing from what I’ve memorized. There are more than 6000 verses, while writing ,a few chapters may get misplaced, now what will you say that the word of Allah got corrupted since someone did some mistakes while writing?? It won’t be considered as Quran in the first place. You may call it a Quranic Manuscript or a part of Quran, but not Quran. The word of Allah is to preserve Quran, not any text, but the words, with their meanings (that is even the sequence of verses is same) . And it is preserved verse by verse in the hearts of millions of Muslims. Pick one Hafiz from Saudi and a Hafiz from India and a Hafiz from America and make them read the Quran. They will read the same Quran verse by verse. Not any manuscript can be called Quran, there are certain conditions to be met just like there are conditions to consider a hadeeth as authentic.
You can also listen to Yusuf Estes on YouTube (he is a revert) awaiting your reply.
Are you actually accusing the teachers that Muhammad himself appointed to teach the koran as having made mistakes when they wrote their books? You are insulting them and you are also obviously pointing a finger at Muhammad for choosing them! You said that you might make mistakes when writing the koran down. Yes, but you are not Ubayy bin Kab!
You need to know that even during the time of Muhammad there was confusion and fights broke out among believers regarding differing recitations and verses. Even Muhammad himself forgot verses. If you were unaware of all this, you should study it for yourself. Dont wait for a kafir to teach you about the facts of your own religion. Please do your own independent research from your own sources to see if what is being said is true.
The text and reading of the koran (hafs) in Saudi is not the same as the text and reading of the koran (warsh) in Morocco.
This is a fact.
The Quran is a blasphemous book & speaks not of love for mankind! Isn’t God of love & not of hate for mankind? I just have one question for any Muslims here on this site! What good did Allah & Muhammad do for mankind on earth did Muhammad & his followers perform any miracles or even any good deeds for their people while they were still living on this earth? I think not!! So why would Allah (God) send a so called prophet just to speak about God (Allah) and not do any miracles, healings or good deeds for mankind, the poor or the sick? Isn’t that what a true prophet is supposed to do? And a true prophet is also supposed to predict things like natural disasters, like earthquakes, lightening, rain, etc to prove that he is truly called to be God’s servant & not just claiming he is by his words but also by his actions! So as I said before since the Quran does not have even one verse proving that Muhammad is a true prophet by the good deeds he did on earth for mankind he would be considered a false prophet & everything he claims is blasphemous to the real Christian Son of God the lord Jesus Christ, the one & only true living God! And the Quran is a counterfeit of evil, deception & ignorances!
I think that the Quran was an evil book made by Satan’s followers! Because why would God (Allah) chose a prophet who did absolutely nothing on earth to help mankind? Why would a loving God chose a prophet who could not predict natural disasters, perform any miracles, heal the sick, or do any good deeds while he was on earth? There’s not even any verses in the Quran that prove that Muhammad & his followers not apostles were even showing any love towards mankind or God himself!! So I think that the Quran is a blasphemous book, based on evil & not the love for mankind, and that they were very ignorant & deceived people as well!!
A true prophet is supposed to predict the weather because that’s one of Gods’ miracles. A true prophet is supposed to help heal the sick, help the poor & help the afflicted ones! A true prophet is supposed to do good deeds for his people or followers & for God(Allah)! A true prophet is supposed to have love for his people, all of mankind for God(Allah). A true prophet is supposed to perform at least one miracle to help all people! And there is no evidence anywhere in the Quran that Muhammad did any of that while he was still living on earth!! All he did was wage war on Christians, Jews & his own people just because they may have been unbelievers!! And the true definition of a false prophet is one who curses people for being an unbeliever or waged war on them!! Even if they were bad or evil wouldn’t God(Allah) forgive them for their sins as long as they repented? But there is no evidence of Muhammad or Allah in the Quran forgiving people of there sins so this is blasphemy! And shows absolutely no love of God(Allah) in the Quran anywhere!! And from my understanding God is supposed to be a forgiving God! So I believe that Muhammad was most definitely a false prophet cause he did not show any love for his people, mankind or the poor & the ignorant which he was a very ignorant person! I believe that Muhammad is probably in hell with all the other murderers, adulterers & fornicators! This is just a warning! If you want to keep believing in the words of the Quran that’s speaks only of hatred for mankind & not the true love of God or Issa Christ the Son of God & the messiah your salvation will be at risk & you will be living in eternal damnation! Here on earth & in the after life!!
Please someone help me, I cound’t find the above web pages. daralfiker.com and easystore.com. (are they deleted?)
where are the web site you mentiond in the pictures?
I am able to access both the websites.
Daralfiker and Easyquranstore.
Try again, Yonas.
Before the Quran write without dots. If we compare without dots and dots one.
Just remove dots and check its word change or remain the same as without dots.
To me remain the same so how can nonmuslim claim Quran changed.
it just scribes make mistakes put dots on right place.
Please do not trap on the non-Muslim accusation.
Quran never going to change.
Masha Allah
I know this is what you have been told all your life. Sadly, you are mistaken.
There is not many version of Quran. In the USA we the ball we kick with our foot is called soccer and this same sports in England is refer as football. Both are English speaking country then why many words are different spelling. This pale man is not honest.
This English man learned to read little Arabic and he thinks he knows Islam.
You said, “In the USA they call it soccer, in England they call it football.”
Do you realize that you have just admitted the existence of different versions of korans?
If the koran is the exact and unchanged words of allah, then the only concern is: did allah say “soccer” or “football”?
Do you understand?
The equivalent words used in different lands or dialects is irrelevant!
If allah used the word “soccer”, then the revealed word is “soccer”!
Do you see? I’m simply using your own example to illustrate.
What is the word that allah wrote in the preserved tablet al-lawh al-mahfooz – “soccer” or “football”?
This English man? This pale man?
I’m neither English nor pale. 🙂
Do you see how muslims make themselves look by making such baseless sweeping statements?
Is it OK if I do the same and call you a Pakistani Al-Qaeda supporter?
“Do you see how muslims make themselves look by making such baseless sweeping statements?”
it’s ironic how you’re doing the same thing in the same statement, without realising it.
Sbh,
Please re-read what I wrote.
Obviously, I was only referring to muslims “WHO MAKE SUCH BASELESS SWEEPING STATEMENTS”, specifically Tomkim, in this instance.
I didnt say that ALL muslims make baseless sweeping statements.
Thank you for posting this. Debating brainwashed people is always a headache so thank you for doing it for the rest of us who don’t have time.
admin, I’ve read some of the comments in here but it seems to me like you’re already made up your mind and not even trying to understand. it seems to me that what you want is just debating, in defending your point about discredit your “opponents” arguments. you dont seem to be trying to understand or seek the truth.
anyway, i hope i’m wrong in that impression i got and i’m gonna just suggest you re-read some of the comments above in a different, more open-minded perspective… :
http://www.faithbrowser.com/versions-of-the-quran/#comment-39
http://www.faithbrowser.com/versions-of-the-quran/#comment-147
http://www.faithbrowser.com/versions-of-the-quran/#comment-151
http://www.faithbrowser.com/versions-of-the-quran/#comment-198
http://www.faithbrowser.com/versions-of-the-quran/#comment-201
last, i wish you would continue seek knowledge and better understanding. and that you wont just seek confrontation.
god bless
Sbh,
Muslims have been saying that there is only one koran all over the world.
That is not true.
Muslims have been saying that not a single dot, letter or word of the koran has changed.
That is not true.
Muslims have been saying that the koran during the time of Muhammad is the same as the the present koran.
That is not true.
Yes, muslims talk about qiraat but even scholars do not agree what qiraats are. Yasir Qadhi admits there are holes in the narrative. Shabbir Ally admits there are different koran texts.
You should drop the traditional narratives you have been told and start seeking the truth about your own book.
” Muslims have been saying that there is only one koran all over the world.”
i would say that it is, though there are many printed copies, the content is the same.
“Muslims have been saying that not a single dot, letter or word of the koran has changed.”
you’re right about dots, though not all muslims make that claim, most know that at the time of the revelation arabic texts didnt have dots. but what most claim is that not a single letter or word changed.
last the koran during the time of Muhammad is the same as the the present koran.
the authenticity of the quran is not based on written text no matter how old it is… though being written only adds value to its authenticity but doesnt prove it.
most muslims base the authenticity of the quran for it being “Mutawatir” مُتَواتِر .
any islamic scholar knows this.
specially ones specialising in hadith studies and terminology
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_terminology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_studies )
Slm,if there’s quotation in qur’an were Almighty said to mohammed should read Qur’an in his name e.g Q:96:1 or can a light in putting or using name e.g Q:11:41,Q:27:30 ! there’s no how suratul tauba may not be putting basmala, becouse it shows that it is not revealed from Almighty Allah as the no put basmala ! May Almighty Allah guide us
if only all the world would read and know the books of the prophets Moses,David,Solomon,Isaiah,Jeremiah,Job, Ezekiel,Daniel,Hosea,Joes,Amos,Obadiah,Jonah,Micah,Nahum,Habakkuk,Zephaniah,Haggai,Zechariah,Malachi,the writings of Jesus’s apostles, the writings of Muhammad’s followers. It would be a much easier talk finding the Truth, the Way and the Life. Since there’s no LIE in God, only Truth and Truth can and must be veryfied to proove it’s light and authority.
God bless you all + united in prayer with all the believers in the One God who created us, loved us and saved us 🙂
Greetings and blessings from Azerbaijan
The picture claims 24 rabic versions, but shows 23. Why?
Also, can we get a clearer picture than that, so we can pass it on. We can barely read the titles of the versions. Thanks!
Alex, the images are screenshot from the website store that sells these qurans.
The links to the website is already given for your reference.
Daralfiker and Easyquranstore.
Thanks for your work. When you are taught that you are a kafir if you even open yourself to question what you have been taught as unquestionable, then you will be either running in circles, or attacking the other instead of addressing the issues. Its obvious that claiming that there have been no change, not a single letter, word, or even a sign, frg om the words of the Angel Gabriel, does not allowed the reasoning of many here as “these words mean the same”, “Arabic has many words for the same thing”, etc. Neither was the question about Uthman self given authority to define the text to keep and the ones to be destroy, or the authority to create the diacritical signs. Not to mention that millions believe, because they have been told that, that this Quran that I have, here in my hands, in my country, is the only one in Arabic. Not talking about translations. That is why Islam will never open to critical text investigation. Something they try to do with the Bible!, Keep the good work!
Some commentators seem to think that all variants have the same meaning or at least don’t contradict. Others don’t seem to realise that the dotting of homographic consonants and short vowel diacritics can have a very significant impact on the meaning. It’s not enough if simply the rasm is preserved, which also has some smaller problems of its own.
The examples we see above are relatively minor (there are some more significant Hafs vs Warsh examples that caused disagreement over rules on fasting and wudu), but looking at other canonical readings, the differences can be much more significant.
For example, did Moses say to Pharaoh in their dialogue in Q.17:102 “You have known that none sent down…”, or did he say to him “I have known that none sent down…”? (al-Kisa’i) Quite a difference!
Examples like these can be found in a short article on the new website https://quranvariants.wordpress.com/dialogue-quran-variants/ where variants make a character say two different things in the same part of some historic dialogue.
There is also an article on superfluous (i.e. redundant) variants, which is another major problem. Human poets do such things, but what purpose in divine revelation?
Most useful of all perhaps is the article addressing bad apologetics on Quran variants and the general topic of preservation https://quranvariants.wordpress.com/bad-apologetics-quran-preservation-and-variants/
This uses the very latest academic findings on a range of issues to briefly debunk each popular claim in one or two paragraphs, ending with a short list of problems for the idea that the Quran is perfectly preserved in the canonical readings.
Thank you
I’m Javanese. In the Javanese language analogy, things like this are normal because of the different dialects. For example the word “in” (english), in the Osing dialect is “ring” while in the Tegal dialect it is “ning”. The letters R and N replace each other. But the meaning doesn’t change.
In the past, the Quran was revealed in 7 qira’at (dialects).
Hello Ika,
1. What are the 7 dialects? Can you show me the different koran in these 7 dialects?
2. Which dialect was Allah’s original speech in? Which dialect is preserved on the eternal tablet that is with Allah?
The example you gave is false. There are different words and meanings. Please do some research.
Admin is crying because no one is paying attention to his attempt of falsehood.
Bill,
There are over 80 comments here. Obviously, there are people paying attention including you.
There is no falsehood. All I did in this article is give you differences in the different quran verses.
Which of these quran verses is falsehood?
Islam is not the Religion of war, and today we have a proof! Quran is a message!
today, Islam is spreading with the message by many people accepting the Message of Quran with their own choice and free will!
If Islam is religion of War, then today Islam should be spread by War, that Muslims should attack the rest of the world and enforce all to accept Islam,
It is complete opposite!!
Islam is spreading by message, free will
You like it or not 🙂
you are just all haters, decadent, you don’t believe in anything, just wasting your time for nothing
Best regards
Cheers
Alan,
During the time of Muhammad, Islam was spread by the sword.
After Muhammad died, many Muslims left Islam. Do you know how they were forced back into Islam? Look up Ridda Wars.
You don’t know the history of Islam. You have been deceived that Islam is peaceful. It isn’t.
Read this.
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah’s Messenger said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’
And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred
to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.”
Sahih al-Bukhari 392
the guy who wrote this has a simple intention to create misguidance. There is only one Quran and nothing has changed. Probably upset his religion has changes drastically. The Quran will always stand the test of time
Ali,
You need to learn more about your quran. This is from your own scholar Shabbir Ally.
Dr Shabbir Ally, Readings and Manuscripts of The Quran, Let The Quran Speak
The majority of Muslims are not aware that variant Quran texts exist, or they have been told the lie that the Quran is preserved word-for-word, letter-for-letter, since the time of Muhammad.
Muslims believe that the Quran was revealed in seven recitations or dialects or readings. The Cairo edition preserves one recitation, known as Hafs.
There are thousands of differences between the variant Quranic texts, in words and meanings. Some Muslims claim the differences are only in pronunciation or dialects. This isn’t true at all.
Just watch the first 2 minutes of this video if you dont have the time
https://youtu.be/c0Z7_MAZX5g
I stopped reading at the “grammatical error”.
This isn’t a grammatical error !!!!
The Hafs version يُقبل
Means “and is not accepted from it” (past)
Ruh version تُقبل
Means “and will not be accepted” (future)
Both are correct. The differences aren’t a problem. They are all from prophet Muhammad (pbuh), no “falsehood”. The fact that more than 1 version has been preserved is miraculous by itself.
_________________
Judging from your replies, you sound like an Islam hater. Attempting to falsify Islam won’t make Christianity true. Islamic sources, or just the hadith, is BY FAR more reliable and safer to follow than the bible if you care about your own salvation.
I see that you brought up the hadith “I’ve been commanded to fight…”
Skip to 4:09 for the response.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gei_pvN0il4
ALL of prophet Muhammad’s battles were defensive, unless a treaty is broken. So no, Islam wasn’t spread by the sword. Today Islam is the fastest growing religion without swords needed. You’re deluding yourself. Don’t be stubborn. May Allah help you.
1. You said, “The fact that more than 1 version has been preserved is miraculous by itself.”
First of all, thanks for admitting that there is more than 1 version of the Quran. There are very few Muslims like you who would dare to admit this.
Second of all, why is it miraculous? Uthman burned numerous variant manuscripts to “preserve” his version. What’s the miracle? Even so, there is no Uthmanic manuscript today.
Your official Quran is the Hafs recitation standardized by the Egyptian government in Cairo in 1924.
2. Salvation is not found in Islam. No Muslim has assurance of salvation. Salvation is not found in a religion or a book. Salvation is only in Jesus Christ.
3. You said, “Today Islam is the fastest-growing religion without swords needed.” Islam is fastest growing because of high fertility rates. Listen to your own scholars lamenting that there is a tsunami of apostasy.
There is nothing to hide. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said the Quran was revealed in 7 Ahruf.
It doesn’t affect the preservation of the Quran, which even children memorizes it.(and I myself started memorizing it too)
Uthamn copied from Hafsa(which was written by Abu Baker), not “his version”.
Looking into the “numerical” and “linguistic” Quran miracles is a good way to prove its preservation.
_______
Islam is the fastest growing even if you ignore the fertility rate.
It is also a sign that we are on the right path when other societies have decline in population.
________
Jesus didn’t preach what you are saying about salvation. You are a follower of Paul.
Literally ALL the quotes in your About page are from Paul. What a joke.
Muslims are the true followers of Jesus. See this image.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Rw5vPAwYrRY/VCbbIDKtLOI/AAAAAAAAC50/1nxsz-tUdY8/s1600/Jesus%2Bwas%2Ba%2BMuslim.jpg
1. Muhammad said the Quran was revealed in 7 ahruf? What’s the point of that? What is the purpose of 7 or 10 or 14 ahruf?(as some of your scholars claim)
Muhammad kept forgetting what he recited and made up the story of ahrufs to con his followers. I am sure you are aware of how his followers came to blows literally beating up one another because they were reciting differently. The same applies to the concept of abrogation. Muhammad kept forgetting what he said and laid the blame on his Allah for making him forget.
2. None of the reasons you gave for the alleged preservation of the Quran is good evidence. Children memorizing the Quran? So what? That doesn’t prove your Quran was preserved or comes from God. Linguistic miracles in the Quran? So what? That doesn’t prove the Quran was preserved. Even if there were supposed “miracles”, it does not prove preservation or even that the Quran comes from God. You see how you have been easily manipulated and brainwashed by your teachers? Bring the Uthman’s Quran and let us verify if your Quran is preserved.
You said, ==>”Uthamn copied from Hafsa(which was written by Abu Baker), not “his version”.
It’s obvious you are not aware of the development of your Quran. Abu Bakr did not write anything. It was Zaid Ibn Thabit who wrote it. Uthman didn’t copy from Hafsa. He obtained the manuscript from under Hafsa’s bed for Zaid Ibn Thabit to rewrite the Quran he first compiled during Abu Bakr’s time. I have plenty of articles on this site. Please learn the history of how your Quran came about.
3. You said, “Islam is the fastest growing even if you ignore the fertility rate.” Do you have any statistics to back up your claim? Or is it just desperate rhetoric? For arguments sake, let say, you’re right. Again, so what? “Fastest growing” does not mean your religion is right or true. See how almost all your arguments for Islam are based on fallacies. This one is known as the Bandwagon fallacy.
“It is also a sign that we are on the right path…” How? Virus also spreads fast.
4. You said, “Jesus didn’t preach what you are saying abut salvation.”
Again you are wrong. Read the Bible. I’ll give you just one verse for now. If you want. more let me know.
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3
Are you born again? Where is this teaching in Islam? Do you think you will see the kingdom of God if you keep following Muhammad? Muhammad himself was fearful of God’s wrath and used to hide when there were strong winds. What a joke!
This is the guy you hope can lead you to his paradise of lusts?
5. You said, “Muslims are the true followers of Jesus.”
Nah, man. I’m sorry but you don’t know Jesus. You know a fictional character named Isa conceived in the mind of Muhammad, 600 years after Jesus had ascended to heaven. Muhammad used the name of Isa and other jewish prophets to give validity to the religion Muhammad invented. The image you posted is further evidence of how shallow Islam is.
Each point is easily refuted. I’ll just do one. “Jesus never ate pork”. Correct. Pork was prohibited for Jews but so was camel meat. Do Muslims eat camel? Yes, you do. So how now? Can you explain?
My latest article: Was Jesus A Muslim?
https://www.faithbrowser.com/was-jesus-a-muslim/
Hmm yea sorry I made one mistake about Abu Baker having written manuscript, he asked Zaid to collect from the other companions.
Prophets are humans, of course he forgets, but he later remembers what he had forgotten. So no, nothing was lost. Plus they’re written ASAP.
Furthermore, after this verse was revealed, he never forgot a verse.
Quran(87:6): “We will have you recite ˹the Quran, O Prophet,˺ so you will not forget ˹any of it˺, ”
_________
Some linguistic and numerical miracles wouldn’t exist unless the Quran was truly preserved. There is a TWO HOURS video on YouTube of the Quran’s linguistic ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ULa2JzPG0
You can’t just keep disregarding them all with “So what? so what? so what?” lol. Very disingenuous. If you don’t care about the truth and your own salvation then talking to you is pointless.
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“Born again” could be referring to when we are all resurrected in the Day of Judgement. When we die we don’t go straight to heaven, but to a world named “Barzakh” or in the bible “Purgatory”.
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The picture of “Jesus was a Muslim” was quoting only the Bible. Nothing about the Quran’s version. That’s a strawman fallacy.
About camel meat for the Jews, I quickly looked it up and found this 1 minute video in Arabic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMgF5_vXo6Q
He answered with Quran(3:93): “All food was lawful to the Children of Israel except what Israel [i.e., Jacob] had made unlawful to himself before the Torah was revealed. Say, [O Muḥammad], “So bring the Torah and recite it, if you should be truthful.””
And Quran (6:146): “And to those who are Jews We prohibited every animal of uncloven hoof; and of the cattle and the sheep We prohibited to them their fat, except what adheres to their backs or the entrails or what is joined with bone. [By] that We repaid them for their transgression. And indeed, We are truthful.”
The Quran is amazing, isn’t it? The answer was already prepared by God Himself(Allah) for you. But you chose to mock and deny before you even look for an answer. Trust me you will regret this. May Allah guide you.
1. Reading your reply, you have not shown that you are aware of the development of the Quran. It seems like you have made up a sanitized version of how your Quran came about.
I have a number of articles that you should study. Then come back.
Start with this one. https://www.faithbrowser.com/is-the-quran-perfectly-preserved/
2. You said, “Some linguistic and numerical miracles wouldn’t exist unless the Quran was truly preserved.”
That doesn’t even make sense. What does preservation have to do with alleged linguistic miracles?
Even if there were so-called linguistic or numerical miracles, logically, such features do not imply preservation. Neither does it imply it is from God.
Again, you should learn more. Here’s some help:
https://www.faithbrowser.com/the-literary-miracle/
https://www.faithbrowser.com/is-the-quran-a-miracle/
3. You said,“Born again” could be referring to..” COULD BE? You’re guessing?
Then you said, “..or in the bible “Purgatory”. Are you serious? Come on, buddy. You have no credibility. Can you show me “purgatory” in the Bible?
4. There is nothing in the Bible that supports the desperate claim that Jesus was a Muslim. Jesus was a Jew.
How does your 3:93 or 6:146 answer my question? I told you that the Jews had a list of dietary restrictions which included camel, pork etc.
Jews do not eat all the foods listed in the Torah, Leviticus 11.
But you Muslims do. Simple as that.
And one very important final note.
If Uthman tried to distort the Quran, he would most likely be instantly killed by the memorizers working with him.
Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 2287
“Umar ibn al-Khattab reported: I heard Hisham ibn Hakim reciting the Surat al-Furqan in a way different from how I recited it and how it was taught to me by the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him. I was about to argue with him, but then I waited until he finished and I tied his shirt around his neck and took him to the Prophet (…) ”
To support my claim, you can see here how violent Umar got over a difference in recitation.
You are literally deluding yourself if you think Muslims would just let Uthman change the Quran. We’re prepared to die for Allah’s sake.
Why do you care about what Uthman did, anyway, when you don’t believe that Muhammad was a true prophet who has come with a revelation from Allah? This is pure hypocrisy.
My Ramadan time is precious. This will be my last comment but I will come back to read your response. Even though I know you are hopeless beyond reason, beyond saving.
1. You said, “To support my claim, you can see here how violent Umar got over a difference in recitation.”
LOL. Yes, I can see that. Violence is built into your religion.
Umar was slaughtered. Uthman was slaughtered. Ali was slaughtered. Do you see a theme? This is the real face of Islam.
Taliban, ISIS, Al-Qaeda are the true Muslims. They emulate Muhammad’s life.
Here is what Umar said:
“Let no one of you say that he has acquired the entire Quran, for how does he know that it is all? Much of the Quran has been lost, thus let him say, ‘I have acquired of it what is available’” (As-Suyuti, Itqan, part 3, page 72)
Learn more: https://www.faithbrowser.com/who-says-the-quran-is-incomplete-imperfect/
2. You said, “You are literally deluding yourself if you think Muslims would just let Uthman change the Quran.”
As I have said repeatedly you don’t know the history of your Quran.
Do you know who Ibn Mas’ud was? What about Ubayy bin Ka’b?
Do you know which sahaba compiled the first Quran? Give me his name. Where is his Quran?
Where is Ibn Masud’s Quran? Where is Ubayy bin Ka’bs Quran?
In fact you don’t even have Uthman’s Quran!
You have a Quran that was standardised by the Egyptian government in 1924 and is based on the recitation of Hafs.
One more article for you to read:
https://www.faithbrowser.com/the-quran-questioned/
3. You asked, “Why do you care about what Uthman did, anyway, when you don’t believe that Muhammad was a true prophet who has come with a revelation from Allah?”
Because most Muslims are ignorant of the truth. They have been lied to by their deceptive teachers. Most Muslims have never studied the life of their “prophet” and how he made up self-serving revelations like how he could marry any woman he wanted and that 20% of the booty belonged to him.
There are two typical reactions from Muslims when they hear the truth about Muhammad and Islam exposed.
i. those who will continue to be obstinate and make excuses for every immorality of Muhammad.
ii. those who will quietly study and search on their own whether Muhammad was a true prophet or a self-serving immoral fraud.
I hope you are in the second group.
Happy Eid-ul-Fitr.
The same author of the book you quoted from says nothing is lost from the Quran.
Book name:
Proficiency In The Sciences Of The Qur’an – Part Three
Page 129
(Google translation)
“Al-Suyuti said in the preamble: Al-Qurtubi said: He should not be under the illusion of this or his likeness that anything of the Qur’an has been lost, for that is false.”
And specifically about Umar’s quote:
“This hadith is to be attributed to abrogation, and abrogation does not contradict God’s promise to preserve the Qur’an, for He, Glory be to Him, does not break His promise, but the abrogated is not of what God pledged to preserve, rather the Almighty mentioned that He abrogates some of the verses, so God Almighty said: We do not abrogate or forget a verse. Did you not know that God has power over all things? {Al-Baqara: 106}.”
Did you really think Muslims scholars would refute their own religion and we would help them publish it?
Come on dude. Be honest to God. All you had to do was just google the answers instead of making up your own interpretations. You’re very blindly biased against Islam because you WANT Christianity to be true. But it’s not and I don’t need to tell you why. Hundreds of priests/pastors/bishops revert to Islam every year because they came to the conclusion that it’s the truth. Move along.
Dear Abdool,
You’re fooling yourself. You don’t know your religion. Learn more.
‘Umar bin al-Khattab (RAA) narrated that he addressed the people and said, ‘Verily Allah has sent Muhammad with the Truth and sent down the Book to him, and THE VERSE OF STONING WAS INCLUDED IN WHAT ALLAH SENT DOWN. WE RECITED, MEMORISED AND COMPREHENDED IT….
(Sunnah.com reference : Book 10, Hadith 5)
WHERE IS THIS VERSE???? Show it to me.
`Abdullah b. `Umar reportedly said, ‘Let none of you say, “I have got the whole of the Qur’an.” How does he know what all of it is? MUCH OF THE QUR’AN HAS GONE. Let him say instead, “I have got what has survived.”‘ (Jalal al Din `Abdul Rahman b. Abi Bakr al Suyuti, al-Itqan fi `ulum al-Qur’an, Halabi, Cairo, 1935/1354, Volume 2, p. 25)
Said Abu ‘Ubaid:
Isma’il b. Ibrahim related to us from Ayyub from Nafi‘ from Ibn ‘Umar who said – Let none of you say, “I have learned the whole of the Koran,” for how does he know what the whole of it is, WHEN MUCH OF IT HAS DISAPPEARED? Let him rather say, “I have learned what is extant thereof.” (Ibn Warraq, Origins of the Koran – Classic Essays on Islam’s Holy Book [Prometheus Books, Amherst, NY 1998], Part Two: The Collections and the Variants of the Koran, 9. Abu ‘Ubaid on the Verses Missing from the Koran, by Arthur Jeffery, p. 151
Of course I am biased against Islam because I have learnt that it is false. You are biased towards Islam because you have been deceived by an immoral self-serving prophet who said he can marry any woman he wanted. This is exactly what cult leaders tell their followers.
You said, “Hundreds of priests/pastors/bishops revert to Islam every year.” My response is, “So?” Even if millions revert to Islam, does that prove Islam is true? This is called the Bandwagon Fallacy. Look it up.
The fact is there are no “hundreds of priests/pastors/bishops revert to Islam every year”. Prove it. That is just Islamic propoganda from your lying imams. As I said conversion is not evidence that a religion is true.
On the other hand, your own Islamic scholars lament that there is a Tsunami of Apostasy in Islam. By your own logic, if people coming to Islam means Islam is true, then people leaving Islam means Islam is false! Well done!
We have no such dilemmas. Jesus already said that the road to eternal life is narrow and only a few will enter it. Islam is false . Muhamamd was a fraud. Quran is a fabrication.