You say that the Torah, Psalms (Zabur) and Gospel (Injeel) that we have now is corrupted.
You acknowledge that the Torah, Psalms and Gospel during the time of Muhammad in the 7th century AD was the uncorrupted, orginal ones.
Let’s consider the facts. Please read very carefully keeping in mind that the Books were unchanged during Muhammad’s time.
1. The Torah that Muhammad referred to in 600 AD as “the light and revelation” is the Torah that had existed from the time of Moses (Musa) in 1400 BC. This means for 2000 years, the Torah was preserved and uncorrupted from Moses to the time of Muhammad. For 2000 years, this Torah was taught and read and preached and memorised. Many thousands of copies were made and distributed in different translations in Europe, Asia and Africa.
2. The Psalms (Zabur) that Muhammad referred to in 600 AD as “the light and revelation” is the Psalms that had existed from the time of David (Daud) in 1000 BC. This means for 1600 years, the Psalms was preserved and uncorrupted from David right up to the time of Muhammad. For 1600 years, this Psalms was taught and read and preached and sung. Many thousands of copies made and distributed in different translations in Europe, Asia and Africa.
3. The Gospel (Injeel) that Muhammad referred to in 600 AD as “the light and revelation” is the Gospel that had existed from 60 – 90 AD. This means for more than 500 years, the Gospel was preserved and uncorrupted until the time of Muhammad. For 500 years, this Gospel was taught and read and preached, for which martyrs died for. Many thousands of copies made and distributed in different translations in Europe, Asia, Africa.
Now….
If the Torah, Psalms and Gospel were corrupted BEFORE the time of Muhammad, that means during the time of Muhammad, there were TWO versions of the Torah, Psalms and Gospel!
Is this what the Quran teaches? NO.
The Quran praises the earlier revelation, tells Christians and Jews to judge by their books. Allah even directs his apostle to ask the People of The Book if he had any doubts. (10:94). This proves that the books in the posession of the Jews and Christians at the time were honored and highly regarded.
BUT….
If the Torah, Psalms and Gospel were corrupted AFTER the time of Muhammad, it would be VERY VERY EASY to spot the corruption.
How?
Just by comparing the corrupted version with the many thousands of clean copies faithfully preserved and taught for thousands of years!
If someone decided to corrupt the Torah, Psalms and Gospel after the time of Muhammad, how is he going to do it?
Does he begin by making the alterations on new copies of the Torah, Psalms and Gospel?
Is he going to collect all the thousands of existing copies all over the world? And do what? To make the same alterations in tthousands of old copies that had existed for 2000 years? Is he going to make the exact same changes In multiple languages that the book had been translated into?
Remember, these original books were in the hands of many ~ Jews, Christians, Muslims. Even Hindus and Buddhists and atheists could own these books.
Did the Jews, Christians and Muslims co-operate to hand over their holy books so that someone could corrupt their scriptures? Wasn’t there even a single honest, truthful, God-fearing Jew or Christian or Muslim who sounded the alarm on what was happening?
If you were living then, wouldn’t you have protected your holy Torah, Psalms and Gospel? Of course you would.
Yet, until today for 1400 years no one has ever brought or shown a different Torah, a different Psalms and a different Gospel from what we have today.
But what we have are THOUSANDS of copies of Torah and Psalms and Gospel. For example: We have over 20,000 manuscripts for the Gospel alone, including fragments from as early as the 2nd century AD! They are virtually the same as what we have today.
Please just bring one authentic manuscript that shows a different Torah, a different Psalms and a different Gospel from what we have today.
P.S. The Gospel of Barnabas has been proven to be a 15th century forgery filled with errors. I said authentic.
Samaritan Torah.
“The Samaritan Pentateuch is a later recension of the Hebrew Torah text, less faithfully rendered than in the Masoretic Text.”
https://www.answering-islam.org/Bible/samp.html
Tend to stay away from polemic or apologetic websites such as Answering Islam. Most of the topics are from those who can be considered worst of creatures (in Islamic understanding).
Besides, the Torah, Zabur, and Injil, are in my opinion to be oral transmission from “the God” preached to the people of the time. Much like the revelations of the praised one. Later they were written into papyri, doctrines coded and modified to the benefit of the masters (hence the “corruptions”). Most of the original meanings got lost into history, therefore, prophets have revealed the scriptures in the understanding/consciousness of the day. The Recitation is no exception.
On-topic, any proof that the historical Muhammad or his successors had access to the previous scriptures in their own language is appreciated. Just don’t mention Waraqa, that was before the confirmation of prophethood.
Carl,
Worst of creatures? Anyone can insult anyone else.
Muhammad/Allah indulging in ad hominem big time was just a defense mechanism.
As for whether the “previous revelation” were in written form during the time of Muhammad, the koran itself confirms it.
Read 7:157 and 10:94.
so how did you know that the torah was fully copied and distribute in those time? copy on what papers? well in those days it didn’t had the uses of papers that is why the persons who had small amounts of copies from cows or sheep skin had to teach it in the temple to the people and judge by it so therefore they are the ones who had corrupted it and loose some of it copies one because Allah didn’t guide it that torah was really set in place for the jews not for everyone like the quran that is for every nation that’s why Allah guide it unto this day
Beverly
You make a lot of claims with no evidence.
When was the Torah corrupted and lost?
Was it corrupted and lost during the time of Muhammad?
Then why did Allah teLl the People Of The Book to judge by their books if they didn’t possess it?
You are insulting your Allah by claiming that he failed to guide and protect his own books.
Islam is the only religion that does this.
Well first of all you are wrong. the Torah (idk about the rest of the holy books) was changed by the time of Muhammad (SAW). Proof of this is in Surah al-Baqarah verse 75 where God almighty says “Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion in spite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish Rabbis) used to hear the word of Allah (the Tawraat) then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?”
Allah also talks to the Jews in Surah Al-Ma’idah verse 15 “But for breaking their covenant We condemned them and hardened their hearts. They distorted the words of the Scripture and neglected a portion of what they had been commanded to uphold. You ˹O Prophet˺ will always find deceit on their part, except for a few. But pardon them and bear with them. Indeed, Allah loves the good-doers.”
Judging from these 2 verses, Its clear to say the Torah was corrupt.
Khosrow,
You claimed that the Torah was changed by the time of Muhammad. And the proof is 2:75.
That is not proof. That’s an allegation. 2:75 is only a claim with no evidence. Anyone can make claims and allegations.
Claims and allegations are not evidence.
Anyway, let’s look at 2:75. Did you actually read and understand what the verse claims? It says A PARTY abused the Torah, AFTER they understood it.
Two things you can infer from this.
One, the Torah existed uncorrupted. Otherwise, how could they understand it to be able to misuse it?
Two, only one party was involved in misusing the Torah. Not everyone else.
In fact, 3:78 explains how exactly this one party misused scripture. By using their tongues! Not by writing but by teaching falsehood orally. Read 3:69 and 4:46.
Again, this involved only one party. The Torah remained preserved at the time of Muhammad.
Finally, your Quran repeatedly vouches for the authority and presevation of the earlier scriptures.
Otherwise why would Allah tell the Jews to judge by their book if they didn’t have it? (5:46-47)
Why would Allah tell a doubtful Muhamamd to ask the Jews and Christians who had been reading their scriptures if they didnt have scriptures to read? (10:94)
They had their book WITH THEM. Thisis confirmed in 2:41, 7:157.
Remember Allah repeatedly calls the Jews and Christians People Of The Book.
Why would he do that if they didn’t have The Book or if their Book was corrupted?
Whatever you think is right. Up to you. Died then can see an unable to argue. Your religion is yours. Mine is mine.Just move on with your argument. Who cares.
Balqis Maimon,
You can have your religion. That is not a problem. Everyone is free to follow their own religions.
But when YOUR RELIGION teaches you to kill unbelievers, then it is a problem.
No religion does this – Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity. None.
Only Islam does.
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah’s Messenger said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’ And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.”
Sahih al-Bukhari 392
Why are you people so ignorant? Or do you justify things by lying to yourselve, Serious question, the quran doesn’t say kill unbelievers, it says to fight the unbelievers in the context of the mechanism pagans that wanted to kill the muslims.
Adriano,
Violence against unbelievers is prescribed in Islam. You dont know the true face of Islam because you have only been taught the “peaceful” Meccan verses.
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Quran 9:29
Read that. Fight against who?
This command is confirmed in the following authentic hadith.
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah’s Messenger said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’
And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be
sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.”
Sahih al-Bukhari 392
The fight is to make all unbelievers Muslims.